2P START! Live!: Bad Ideas Edition
August 25th, 2008
In this episode, Tim and Ray discuss the difficult time they had with the comic last week and their relief when it was so well received. Also, Ray introduces a new segment that’s sure to make you laugh!
[display_podcast]
It seems I’m first again.
Weird.
Oh and sorry for double post.
I updated the 2P START Wikipedia page with the new segment.
Good podcast, just a couple things… which stems more from me being a HUUUUUUUUUGE dork…
Tim, the Blue Dragon team was NOT the Final Fantasy team, but rather a dream team assembled only one other time in history. Yamauchi Sakaguchi is known as the father of Final Fantasy. Nubuo Uematsu is know as the greatest game composer of all time (also known for Final Fantasy). Akira Toriyami is know for Dragon Quest and Dragon Ball franchises. Last time this dream team assembled, they gave us Chrono Trigger. That’s why Blue Dragon was expected to be an epic seller.
But yeah, MS should have had more stock ready to go but they were perhaps trying to avoid another Xbox disaster in Japan. True fact, if you buy an Xbox (original) in Japan right now, you’re buying a launch unit. Japanese retailers never sold through their first shipment of Xboxs… in fact, the boxes still show Madden 2001, Munch’s Oddyssey, and Halo…
Ray, here’s the reason why you don’t see Nintendo’s Dpad anywhere else… it’s copyrighted now. Originally, it was patented but patents expire in 14 years to keep from stiffling an industry and innovation. Nintendo, meanwhile, pushed for the cross dpad to be copyrighted as a distinctive feature of a Nintendo product. Now it’s protected for at least 100 more years. That’s why companies have done things like the disk (fact: Saturn still has the best Dpad of all time) or making each direction a seperate button (PSX). Is it sad that I know this? Or sadder still that I know every racing game that uses “ghost data,” Midway gets a check…
I researched game patents a while ago and tried to argue that game patents are not only destroying the innovation in the industry, but also patents are now being awarded lacking working prototypes and some things are being granted that really shouldn’t have been awarded. The Nintendo dpad patent is one of those I feel stands in the way of the industry moving forward. But game DESIGN patents are MUCH MUCH worse.
Okay, so I took notes like I always do now.
1. Tim, You said that sometimes you can’t really listen to your own podcasts some times…I’m kinda the same way with my videos, I don’t like the sound of my own voice. XD Why does your voice have to sound different to yourself?!
2. Yay, new segments, although T-T-Topic of the week was suspiciously missing, shoulda talked about Mario Super Sluggers or something, today’s it’s shipping date.
3. Okay, I admit, the Trauma Center clip was funny,( and I see you cut out the middle part, not exactly appropriate I suppose. Also, Chase’s sister didn’t have cancer, cancer had been cured by that time…she had Deftera!) but I don’t think the series should be made fun of for GUILT and Stigma, without it, the story would be extremely bland, and video games need a villain sometimes, and what do you know I finally got mentioned…then there was an awkward silence after that…did something get edited out or was that just a dramatic pause for the next segment?
4. Now, good job with the comments this time! It’s not that I hate it when you pick compliments, it’s just kinda annoying when you pick the SAME compliments, there weren’t any “I’m new” type comments so I’m happy.
5. I don’t really have a whole lot to say about Microsoft’s D-Pad because I don’t own a 360 and wasn’t really aware of a problem, though when you said you sanded yours down Tim, that reminded me…you said that in a previous podcast, so I guess I did know there was an issue there, but I forgot.
6. And random, but Kirby 64 took some getting used to for me, because it used the D-Pad instead of the analog stick. I personally think that the analog stick works fine for navigating menus. I actually used my GC controller to play Super Metroid on the Virtual Console and had no problems with it (yes I used the analog stick to control Samus).
And that’s about it.
Roadjcat, there were all kinds of stuff that got edited out. The only thing about you that was taken out was a mention of where Trauma Center 1 and 2 were on your top ten list, for those who may not have understood Tim’s comment.
Sheppy, you’re absolutely right about everything. I just find it complete bonkers that Microsoft can’t develop a decent d-pad of their own.
Oh I agree but here’s the deal. The current Dpad is the same as the one that’s on the Duke, Rev B, and now the 360 control pad. The main reason why this “issue” is never mentioned outside of those idiots like myself that needed to snag 2d fighters is because the dpad in most Xbox gen titles were more for menu selects and such. With the resurgence of 2D gameplay nowadays, the issue becomes very apparent. It’s silly that this issue exists in the first place, but most of Microsofts controller revisions were based on user feedback and the horrible dpad wasn’t readily apparent until this gen.
Personally, I don’t care regardless. I learned long ago to avoid dpad dependant games on my 360 (before I got rid of it… looking to jump back in in january). The only time the issue does arise for me is in scenarios like the upcoming Battle Fantasia, where the company responsible for localizing (Arksys Systems I believe) is taking a PS3/360 game, translating it, and only bringing it over on 360. To which I spend $70, import a translated copy from HMV in the UK where THEIR localization team has some sense, and laugh at the $60 Arksys could have made by exclusively supporting a platform with a horrible dpad and tends to punish niche titles like Battle Fantasia for being niche.
Oh okay. I guess I just don’t notice the edits most of the time. And you’re right, about six people would’ve understood what you guys were talking about. XD
Another great podcast guys. I love the new intro Ray. 🙂
What kind of game design patents are out there, Sheppy? I hope there’s nothing that will obstruct anything I’m making/want to make/have made. (not that they’d want anything form little old me) 🙂
So-so podcast, No ttttopic of the week kinda made it less than stellar this week, Comic talk was funny. Too bad I don’t side with you on the D-pad thing. Once consoles go Joystick, D-pads aren’t needed anymore. It is just like the Touchscreen on the Ds, Why are there buttons on the unit itself when you can create as many or as few buttons the particular game needs. I don’t also get the need for two joysticks, both which click for extra buttons… do you really need four action buttons (a,b,x,y) four shoulder buttons (l1,l2,r1,r2) four directions on a D-pad (Up, down, left, right) TWO analog joysticks both with over 360 degrees of rotation and varing levels of pressure and two extra buttons (l3,r3)
And I thought the N64 controller was complex (why does it look like you need three hands to use the thing???? DO PEOPLE HAVE THREE HANDS???? no.)
Nice podcast guys! This one felt a little short, but that’s not neccessarily a bad thing.
You guys watch Egoraptor’s videos? Awesome! I love his videos! My personal favorites are Metal Gear Awesome 1 and 2, Awesome Center (original and redux), and Awesome Man.
I always think that it’s Tim who’s laughing in the intro for the Black Doom award. It isn’t is it?
Oh, and the new intro and ending are pretty cool.
Well, I’d say my top three industry hindering patents in game design are as follows.
3. Benami… any of them. The top of the list is the scrolling interface patent which has been the major reason why, as Harmonix made Frequency, they had to give up the original interface for the hallway design now used in Guitar Hero/Rock Band. The validity of this patent was confirmed as Konami successfully sued Andamira over Pump It Up. It was deemed the way the steps scrolled was patented game design. Irony steps in, then, as Konami started stealing all of Andamira’s innovations in the dancing game genre (freezesteps, background videos, etc). Fortunately, the existance of Konami’s patents are the main thing that WILL ultimately destroy Gibsons current lawsuit crusade.
2. Crazy Taxi Arrow. You know that big arrow Crazy Taxi used? Ever wonder why no other games use it? It’s patented is why. And unlike Midway, Sega will not license out this design for a cheap price. And so open world games are brought down with cluttered GUIs because Sega patented a feature which shouldn’t have been patentable.
1. Magnavox Patents. On one hand, this was what allowed Ralph Baer to finally get back at Nolan Bushnell for stealing his game design/invention known as the brown box. But on the other, for a long period, the game industry as a whole had to pay a large amount of money to Magnavox until the patents expired. Even Nintendo was paying Magnavox just because they made a system which hooked up to a TV….
I agree, Egoraptor is awesome.
Heh-heh, get it, AWESOME! ?
Why don’t you and your wife share toothpaste?
I love Frosted Mini Wheats!
Well, I usually buy the Malt-O-Meal rip-off with the blue kangaroo but they taste the same and you get more for your buck.
[With upward inflection]
“Yay rushed comics?”
Anon, I used to use sensitive toothpaste until I read that you weren’t supposed to use that more than a few weeks at a time (this was years after using it every day). Anyway, she used hers and I used mine, but now there’s no real reason, just habit I guess.
Okay, I feel I do have to make one kinda smarmy comment about that Trauma Center video. How do you have deep lacerations in the sternum? That makes no sense. And not everyone in the game has GUILT, the accident patients are usually the normal type operations (except for that one dude that had like a six-inch piece of glass IN his heart, not lodged in the heart, like literally in the heart).
Joysticks are intended for 3D games? Huh? That’s funny, last time I checked the Pac-Man arcade cabinet it had a joystick and it doesn’t seem very 3D to me…
Eddie,
I think he meant analog sticks. Joysticks, like D-Pads, have 4 or 8-way navigation, perfect for Pac-Man, not ideal for 3D games.
Well, aside from the fact that a vast majority of the touch screen controlled games either tried to be too complex (Zelda PH… cartwheel is done how again? That’s stupid) or were just plain crap (Starfox DS), you forget the fact that DS’s touch screen isn’t multitouch.
And besides, just because a console CAN do something doesn’t mean the player should be FORCED to do something. Take, as an example, Dawn of Sorrow. Excellent Castlevania game, no doubt. But it had it’s weak points. In particular, the magic seal system and the blue crystals. Both elements applauded as “innovative ways” to use the DS’s capabilities dragged the game down. Ever have to fight a tough boss battle like Paranoia with a stylis clenched in your teeth because Iga thought the touch screen was cool? Fortunately he removed that silliness from Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclasia. Regardless…
If the game’s focus is much better on a Dpad, having a Dpad isn’t a bad thing. For most games, the Dpad isn’t used. As for the too many buttons thing… I’m a veteran Core pilot who rolls with the 9 Breakers. Complexity is every bit as important to me as my Karasawa Mk IV.
I agree, I hate the DS’s touchscreen use just for ‘innovation’, do you really need to push a ‘button’ on the screen in New Super Mario Bros. to bring up the item when select could have been used? This especially gets me when the action takes place on the bottom screen in underground places and the said button isn’t there to use.
great… I’ll have to remember that you can’t do that. (Not sure what the other ones are really…) Stupid patents.
Multi-touch…. I have stuff on multi-touch. Check this out:
This guy is a CMU grad student who just got lazy one day and did a side experiment with the Wiimote…. YouTube
Hey, I’m interested in hearing about what you guys have been playing during the last week. I mean, you’re gamers after-all, right? I like hearing about how you came up with the comic or game remixes, but what about the games you play? What have you guys been doing as gamers during the past week? Or are you so busy reading nutrition labels that you don’t have time to play games anymore?
See, we “veteran” readers don’t want to hear praise because we’ve been praising you the whole time. We’re the jealous type.
Is there something up with Ray’s throat? He sounded slightly weird during the Black Doom Award. Maybe he’s just really angry. I also thought Ray were talking about Joystiq, not joysticks. 😛
Oh my, very nice into/outro music. 🙂
I listened to it yesterday, but then my internet stoped working before I could post,so I forget how it was. I enjoyed it, but I don’t remember any specifics.
Agreed. Almost sorta like the opposite of a Black Doom Award…but limited to you guys…
THAT’S WHAT THE PODCAST NEEDS! A NUTRITION LABEL OF THE WEEK SECTION!
I can’t tell if I’ve made the round all the way through every podcast, or if I just happened to listen to this one already. At this rate, I’m going to end up listening to every podcast at least twice.
I remember this particular podcast (44) because the Trauma Center clip always makes me laugh and I enjoyed the mini wheats discussion. And it’s also one of my favorite comics because I love the idea it showcases and wish it were real, even though it’s impractical.